Leading with trust

Kari Wiens

Great. Welcome, everyone. We're so glad you're joining us. I'm Kari Wiens from TMP, and I'm joining from Colorado, where we've finally gotten some snow, but not as much as some of our Southern counterparts and up the East Coast. So thank you again for joining us for our continued series on women leading the way in B2B. And today we're going to dive into the topic of trust. As 2026 gets underway, many of us are leading through constant change while being held to higher standards at the same time. AI is continuing to reshape our work, expectations are rising, and certainty is even harder to come by. So in today's conversation, we're going to talk about what leadership really looks like in that environment, how trust is built, how value is shown, and how decisions get made when things aren't clear. I'm going to go ahead and introduce us to our lovely panelists today. So I'll go around the room and each of us will talk a little bit about ourselves, where we're joining from, and then answer the question and let us know one expectation you feel is placed on marketing leaders today that may feel heavier than it did a year or so ago. And how are you starting to respond to that? Let's go ahead and kick off with Jesse.

Jesse Wu

Thank you, Kari. Hi, everyone. My name is Jesse Wu. Really happy to be here. I'm the head of account-based marketing for Autodesk Construction Cloud. Autodesk is a leader in 3D design, engineering, and construction software, and I am joining from the sunny Berkeley, California. So one expectation that feels heavier today is being asked to deliver the same or greater impact in the context of layoffs, constant strategy or org changes, and ongoing resource constraints. On top of that, there's often this unspoken expectation that AI can somehow magically fix everything, but the reality is more complicated than that. These shifts don't just create execution challenges, they create emotional weight for leaders and teams. Of course, AI is incredibly powerful, but without the right tools, training, and internal setup, it can actually slow teams down or even lead to burnout. So how I have been responding is by not carry the weight alone. I've learned the importance of being vulnerable as a leader. I reach out to cross-functional partners, my managers and executives proactively. I am honest about where things are hard. I invite real conversations and support. When you open that door, you're often surprised by how many people are willing to listen, lean in, and actively help solve the problems together. At the same time, I'm keeping an open mind and creating space for my team to learn, experiment, fail, apply AI to real business challenges. As AI becomes more integrated into our day-to-day workflows, human connection like this matters even more. When we blend AI-driven efficiency with genuine human touchpoints, it becomes a real competitive edge.

Kari Wiens

Thank you, Jesse. We're so glad to have you. Frances, could you introduce yourself?

Frances Verdugo-Lash

Hi, everyone. I'm Frances Verdugo-Lash. I'm director of marketing for Compass Data Centers. We build data centers for some of the largest companies in the world. So enabling things like this webinar, your constant scrolling on Instagram, all that fun stuff. But I have to say, I'm joining from Dallas, if I didn't mention. It's a blistering cold, shockingly, for the South. I have to say one expectation that's placed on marketing that's heavier than previously is that adaptation to rapid growth while maintaining the same standards and the same goals as previous. And the way to address that is that vulnerability that Jesse mentioned, that asking questions, keeping people informed, that transparency is key as things change rapidly with technology, as your audiences shift, that is the foundation to making sure that trust is maintained.

Kari Wiens

Great. Thank you for joining us, even in the snow, Frances. Zoe, could you please introduce yourself?

Zoe Hominick

Certainly. Hi, Kari. Great to be with you all today. So my name is Zoe Hominick. I'm the EMEA Marketing Director at Amazon Web Services, and I'm joining you from London today. I have to say, no hint of snow here, sadly, although we will keep praying. So as I think about this question, I think for me, what really comes to mind is that ever increasing pace of change. change, pace in itself is not new. But I think what we're seeing now, importantly, is that coupled with probably unseen levels of uncertainty. So it's not just that change is happening faster, you know, probably faster than ever it has, it's that we're operating in an environment where the nature of that self, that change in itself is unpredictable. So, you know, for us as marketing leaders, the expectation to be able to anticipate customer or demand changes, to develop robust strategies that are agile, that can adapt as our customers are, And amongst all of that still deliver measurable impact, in this increasing complex and ambiguous landscape, I think has been, and we are seeing really be more demanding than ever.

Kari Wiens

Absolutely. Naima, can you finish us out?

Naeemah Philippeaux

Yeah, happy to, really happy to be here as well. So I'm Naeemah Philippeaux, I'm the Global Head of Brand Strategy at McKinsey, which is a global management consulting firm. So we work with anywhere from startups to Fortune 50 companies, nonprofits, etc. And I think one expectation that feels a bit heavier than maybe a couple of years ago is just how marketing leaders really need to get even broader. We need to get even closer to business. We need to really show the impact of what are, not just about a marketing campaign or a creative, it's really around like, how is this strategic approach actually helping the overall business strategy that we have as well? And what is marketing's role in that particular piece too? I know we always talk about as marketers full funnel marketing, but I really think about it as full funnel business, right? Like we are, it goes beyond just what we've done over and over over the past several years. It really is, we are now embedded and we need to really show that value that we are creating for the business. And I think, how are we responding to it? I know on my team, like one thing we're doing is obviously insights. It's data. It's showing the actual, not just the measurement, but showing like where our customers are, what are they doing, using that data to really kind of tell that story and making sure like others have mentioned that we're communicating across, you know, stakeholders, not just within marketing and really making sure that we're connecting those dots. Because again, marketing is is a big driver of the overall business strategy and making sure that we align our marketing to that is incredibly important.

Kari Wiens

That's great. Thank you. And for those of you joining us in the audience for the first time, this webinar series is meant to just be real, authentic, candid conversations with some of today's wonderful female leaders across multiple different businesses in the marketing space. So we're really lucky to be joined by this group today. The way that we structure this is I will walk us through a series of questions for the panel, and then we will have open Q&A at the end. But please don't feel like you need to wait till the end to get your question written down. We'll try to answer a couple as we go, but most will save towards the last few minutes of the call. All right, so let's just go ahead and dive right in. So we all know that trust is a leadership currency. So the first question I want to ask here is how do you intentionally build and maintain trust, not only with your teams, but your peers, your executives, when priorities keep shifting and confidence can erode so quickly? And Zoe, I wanted to see if you would kick us off.

Zoe Hominick

Yeah, really happy to. Thank you. And I think this is such an important question. As you say, given the context that I've described of that change, the pace of change, the ambiguity, trust really is more important than ever, whether that's with our teams, with our customers, with stakeholders across the business. And being able to navigate that trust is a really important leadership skill. I think, you know, at Amazon, one of our core leadership principles is all about earning trust. And I think this is one that resonates deeply right now, given what we see. When I think about building trust, it's not just about what we say, how we transmit, communicate information. It's about how we listen. So that means listening attentively to really hear what is being said, or indeed, at times, what isn't being said. I tried to make sure that I make space for the conversations and then also allow that time to follow up on what I'm hearing. If there are concerns, you know, making sure I acknowledge them, you know, share what can or can't be acted on, and importantly, sharing the why to giving people the reason, the rationale. And, you know, it's not that we're going to be able to solve everything immediately, But being able to talk candidly about what we do or don't know, and then actually really working with people to be able to try and figure that out together, I think is important. And then thinking about, again, building on that trust. It's about treating others with respect. Trust is built through consistency. And it's not necessarily those grand gestures, it's the small moments and the consistency and the cumulative nature of those small moments that I think really, you know, earn and build the trust.

Naeemah Philippeaux

I think just to build off what Zoe was saying, it really comes down to that transparency that you were kind of mentioning around transparency with your teams as much as you can, right? And when you can't say something, acknowledging that you can't say something, transparency with your key stakeholders, like to your point, Zoe, I think it's about consistency and it's also about reliability, right? Like, are you delivering what you need to deliver in the time you said that you actually would deliver it? And if not, are you communicating that ahead of time? And I think all of that are the small steps that build out that trust and really actually help a department organization and overall business really grow and find success in that way as well?

Frances Verdugo-Lash

I think there's a key theme here on consistency, but I do like this that Zoe pointed out the asking why, and as well as opening yourself to having that asked of you. One of Compass's core convictions is asking why to understand the needs versus the wants. It's really easy as things change and are moving fast to just start doing things. And taking that pause and allowing that question to be asked as well as asking it is really important to maintaining trust because then everyone understands the reasoning behind what is being done.

Jesse Wu

Yeah, definitely. Double down on that consistency. For me, trust is built through consistency, follow through, and being proactive in communication, especially when priorities are shifting. Uncertainty grows really quickly if leaders stay silent, right? So one thing I'm very intentional about is engaging teams early. When I sense something is off or if I see potential issues emerging, even if I'm still working through some of those details myself, I believe naming what I'm seeing and open the conversation early matters. You don't need perfect clarity to start a dialogue. And having those conversations early prevents small issues from turning turning into bigger problems later. It also shows teams that you're paying attention, you're listening, like everybody was saying, and you're willing to be transparent and you're committed to solving things together. And over time, that consistency builds trust and confidence and even when the environment is constantly changing.

Kari Wiens

Naeemah, I'm going to put you on the spot and just ask you, what do you think breaks trust the fastest?

Naeemah Philippeaux

One thing I think breaks trust is not admitting your mistakes. Because honestly, I think a lot of times, especially I've seen this with, you know, different managers, leaders, is that, you know, something happens and you try and cover it or you try and not actually, you know, share that awareness. And I think that breaks trust because things come out, right? And I do think it's important to, like with your team, even with your stakeholders, with when you're working in cross collaboration, to Jesse's point, if something is going to go off the rails, you need to communicate that ahead of time. And if you're unable to, then you need to share what actually happened. Because I think that when you are not being transparent and you're not being upfront about those mistakes, that's eroding trust and you're not having that clear acknowledgement and then actually course correcting, right? Because there's opportunity to rebuild, but you have to be honest first to do that, to actually take that next step forward.

Kari Wiens

Yeah, absolutely. And I think you all touched on it a bit of, you know, making sure that we're showing value when everything is scrutinized. So getting a little bit more personal, Francis, I'm going to start with you on this next question. But you had mentioned that we're all under more pressure than ever to justify our decisions. Can you share an actual personal moment when your work or your team's work was closely questioned? And how did you communicate value in that moment? And what did it teach you?

Frances Verdugo-Lash

So I I really enjoy being questioned, and that Compass has a culture where being questioned is integral to how we do things, and it makes building trust and maintaining trust fundamentally easy. One of the things that makes Compass different in our space is that we work very closely with our supply chain partners on co-developing products that help us build data centers that enable connectivity around the globe. And as we work with our partners on product launches, For any of our communications around those products, we have to, as part of the process, bring in cross-functional teams and open up our work to those questions. Why are you doing this? Why is it said like this? And so then it becomes less about proving value. It just becomes a byproduct of that process. So really opening yourself up to those questions, asking for them happily, it just helps with proving that value of anything that you're doing in the market.

Kari Wiens

Opening that question to the rest of the panel, any good examples to share of when your work or your team was questioned?

Jesse Wu

Yeah, I'll share a personal experience that's probably relatable to many ABM leaders and practitioners out there. I've been asked more than once, does ABM really work? I'm sure this is a familiar question. for many of you. So when I was building out our ABM function and program, the scrutiny wasn't just about source pipeline. The real questions were whether ABM actually accelerated opportunities after they were created and how it helped close the most strategic deals with statistically significant data, not just directional signal. Instead of being discouraged, those questions really pushed me and my team to find meaningful ways to demonstrate the value of our work. On one hand, we partnered closely with our data science and marketing operations team to design and run an ABM holdout cohort test. It took about a year from design to analysis, but the results were clear and statistically significant. ABM touchpoints consistently helped win higher value opportunities. And on the quantitative side, we gathered hundreds of quotes and testimonials from customers and account teams on how ABM efforts improved the end-to-end customer experience and contributed directly to the critical wins. So what I learned is that when your work gets questioned, it's often a gift, like what, for instance, was saying. It really opens the door to curiosity, better answers, and stronger outcomes. So I've learned to stay open, work through the discomfort of being questioned, and use those challenges as fuel to keep improving.

Kari Wiens

And so does ABM work?

Jesse Wu

Yes. Statistically significant.

Kari Wiens

I love it. All right, shifting gears a bit, let's go ahead and talk about When we're thinking about leading and there's no perfect answer. So one reality we all know of 2026 is that clarity often comes after action. And how you lead decisively when there's no clear right answer is different for all of us. So whether that unclear or that uncertainty is because of market shifts, internal pressures, where AI is headed, what helps you move forward without losing confidence or alignment? And Zoe, I'll kick it off with you.

Zoe Hominick

Yeah, absolutely. And I think I'll start with a statement here that, speed matters. So as we're thinking about, as you say, all of the ambiguity, the wealth of information and data that is at our fingertips now, actually decision making can become much more complex. You know, being able to assess and, you know, identify all those sources, consolidate, you know, come up with recommendations. And therefore, it's, what I look at is, really the, I guess, the application of concepts that is around kind of what we kind of term one-way and two-way door decisions. And that's really a framework. It was popularized by Jeff Bezos. And it's really about, you know, providing, as I say, a framework of structure to help make decisions and kind of create high velocity in those decision-making processes. So one-way doors are kind of consequential and probably near irreversible decisions. Once you walk through that door, you're stuck on the other side and it's not something you can easily kind of turn around and walk back, you can't undo that change. Two-way door decisions, on the other hand, are changeable and are reversible. You can walk through, you can see how it feels, and then you can walk back or you can walk a different way. And that probably actually is most decisions. So, you know, an example of a two-way door decision might be changing a website layout or, you know, a marketing headline, you know, testing that with different accounts. Those decisions are typically low risk, and actually, you should really try and encourage experimentation. So I think the first thing is, when there are so many decisions, like you say, there's internal pressure, there's increasing ambiguity, to really try and help yourself and your teams to move forward is, is by really trying to empower them and really help them understand whether the decisions they're making are one-way or two-way door, and really making sure that those two-way door decisions are empowered through the team. I think the second piece is looking at then actually how as many as possible of those one-way door decisions can be made into two-way door decisions. Can you run a pilot? Can you run a test? Does that help you actually turn that into a two-way door decision that gives you more clarity to then be able to move forward with confidence? And that's something certainly that, you know, myself and the team really try and embrace to make sure we're driving the decisions down. We're giving that ownership to the team to be able to make those decisions. And where they are truly one-way door decisions, we have the increased capacity to really be able to do the additional due diligence that's required there.

Naeemah Philippeaux

I think just to build off of that, one thing my team and I do is we do this like planning, look back kind of strategy session every year and we kind of see what worked, what didn't, et cetera, and then kind of figure out what is our plan for the future. Because I do think it is important to have like a vision, you know, for your team, for your department around where you're looking to go, acknowledging that there needs needs to be flexibility because there's so much change and it's even exponential at this point right now across multiple different areas. So we build in that space for flexibility, for movement, for the different doors as Zoe was mentioning. And I think with AI in particular, there's an opportunity to really act thoughtfully and not wait for perfect information because it's moving so fast that if you don't do something, you're going to miss out, you're going to be behind. So I think there's an opportunity for, like Zoe was mentioning, there's pilots, the experiments. One thing I'm doing on my team is everyone has to build an agent, right? You have to build an agent. You have to figure out what that actually means and what does it actually look like for your particular work stream, your different particular projects, and use it as a way of testing and learning. Because I do think you need that, you need to build that into that vision, into that plan, especially when you have all this movement happening around you.

Frances Verdugo-Lash

I'll build off of that. I think creating a testing culture where small improvements are really valued will help against those one way door decisions where they feel irreversible. But also, if that one door decision gets made, creating a culture of celebrating failure, let's actually see what can be learned from that. You know, trying to create as many continuous improvement opportunities, small improvements over time, testing and using all the technology that we have at our disposal to help with that. But making sure that when things do go awry, that we take that moment, slow down to really investigate what it was that happened. And it just it is improving morale too. When things are changing so fast, it can it can feel sort of hard for a team. So making sure that it's positive. is an opportunity for learning and everything is very helpful.

Jesse Wu

Yeah, and I think we all have to acknowledge that leading decisively means accepting that risk is part of leadership, right? And then that's why we do need to create space for failure and learn what's working, what's not working. And what gives me the courage to move forward with, you know, difficult decisions sometimes is trust, right? I trust my team, will learn, adapt, and come out stronger. And I also trust our cross-functional partners because we've built a solid foundation over time. And that trust creates a safe space to fail, to pivot quickly, to be creative, and even during those tough moments. So yeah, like everybody else said, it is really about creating that culture and space for failure, for testing.

Kari Wiens

And I love how that culture of the not being afraid to make mistakes, it really also helps protect your team in those moments and ensure that the team all knows how they can move forward together and what their parameters are around being able to have that testing culture. So thank you. Those were all really good points. Let's take a step back real quick and talk a little bit about leadership evolution and inflection points. So zooming out from tactics and talking more about growth. What's a moment in your career where your definition of leadership changed, especially under pressure? How did that experience shape how you show up today? Naeem, would you mind starting us off?

Naeemah Philippeaux

Yeah, for sure. So I had an early career experience at a previous company where, you My manager at the time was discouraging my growth, discouraging me from taking that next step, going into that next area of my career, just out of fear of losing a high performer on her team. And I look back at that moment because it was an inflection point and it really influenced how I think about leadership and management and the differences between those two things. Especially when it's under pressure, you're trying to reach your goals, you're trying to reach certain metrics and KPIs. And I think there was a tendency to under pressure for her to prioritize retention over development of her team. And I've learned that with leadership, with the strongest leaders I've seen is that they're able to kind of hold those dual lenses at the same time. So let's really think about what's right for the business. while also thinking about what's actually going to help the team grow. And that's something that I truly try to carry into my team as well, around like, when people do, when my team feels supported, when people feel supported in general, in their trajectory, in the work that they're doing, they're more engaged, they're more effective at what they're doing, they're more committed to the work, to the company, et cetera. whether they're staying for years or even a shorter amount of time. So I think that was a real big moment for me around how do you lead teams, not just manage them, but how do you lead teams really inspire and help them to think about their role in the overall team and overall in the company as well as in their career as different points together that can come together to kind of fit that mold. So leadership isn't just about holding. you know, people in place, I think it's about helping them move forward with additional clarity.

Kari Wiens

I'm going to put Frances on the spot because we were talking a little bit about the outline for this and where we go. Frances, you had mentioned something about deep end moments. Do you want to go ahead and elaborate for the team what that means?

Frances Verdugo-Lash

Yes. I've been very lucky in that I've always had managers and leadership who have thrown me into the deep end and You know, earlier on in my career, I didn't even have the perspective to know it was the deep end and just sort of given a lot of space to figure it out on my own while still always knowing that if I ran into a tough spot, I could ask questions. I could ask those, quote unquote, dumb questions. And I think that, you know, as I've gotten further along, looking back and realizing like, wow, that was really a deep end moment. incredibly grateful for having been given that space to really experiment and grow and going to Naima's point of being given the space to grow, but also knowing that I had that safety net of, hey, I've run into trouble. Can you help me sort this out? I mean, that's, it's been incredible to look back and realize that. And I think that giving your team that space, like incredible space and trust to be, I know that you can figure this out, but I'm here, is it creates trust in a team, but also as you as a leader.

Zoe Hominick

And I think if I just pick up on a point that you made there, Frances, and that space to grow, I think certainly if I look back early in my leadership journey, I realised I was holding back from opportunities unless I felt 100% ready, that I could tick every box in the requirements for that role. And I think actually what I've learned is that some of that growth, that great things happen actually when you're outside of your comfort zone. And, you know, I've applied that therefore probably, you know, more laterally in my career, but also now how I look to support my team. I think it's really important, you know, as a leader to get to know your team, to spend time with them, and not just about their skills, but also their aspirations, you know. to understand what their growth, you know, mindset, their ambitions might be, and try and just understand where maybe they're holding back. So I can see where is someone ready for a stretch assignment? You know, how, you know, perhaps they're hesitating. How can I put the right support in place? How can I embrace that and present that to them in a way that, you know, means that they feel comfortable, you know, being uncomfortable, being in some of those situations where they perhaps they're, you know, they're stretching themselves, they're stepping outside of their comfort zone. And I think that is where the most significant growth happens. And that's really important, both for them as the individual, but also for the business. And I see that very much, I guess, taking my own learning as being, you know, part of my role as a leader.

Jesse Wu

Yeah, and similar to Frances, though, I've been really fortunate that I have managers, mentors, executive sponsor who also threw me into the deep ends. When I remember this one moment, one of my favorite managers, and she said, hey, Jesse, you're going to present this strategy deck tomorrow, right? And I was like, What? Really? Can I do this? She said, yeah, you're absolutely ready. So those are, you know, those moments that really change how I see about leadership. And I also just learned by from observing how those leaders lead with trust, heart and action while also showing their humanity. And it wasn't really like one moment. It's like many moments stitched together that shaped how I lead today. And I definitely focus on like being very honest with my team about challenges, right? Because earlier in my career, I thought, oh, leadership is all about having all the answers. But the truth is, we don't always have the answers, right? That's why we need a team. So I focus on, you know, supporting my team through transitions, uh, creating a safe space for them to ask questions. They'll really roll up my sleeve and work through those challenges with them, being in the trenches together with them. And I also, you know, help like carve out space, um, for growth conversations and not shy away from those growth conversations. And I also believe that, um, staying true to yourself and leading with integrity, especially during, um, the time of constant changes is extremely important.

Kari Wiens

I am going to jump to one question from the audience real quick. It's noted that women are highly unlikely to ask for more things, try to get that promotion, push that agenda. What would some of your advice be there, knowing what we just talked about of how you lead and try to bring teams along with you? Naima, especially back to your original point, right? When you face some of that discouragement in your own career.

Naeemah Philippeaux

Yeah, and just to kind of, can you repeat the first piece of the question? I want to make sure I answer it correctly too.

Kari Wiens

Yeah, so it's mainly around the idea that women have a hard time deciding to push. So what's the advice to them if they're in a similar situation where they might feel a little bit of discouragement or don't know that next step to take?

Naeemah Philippeaux

Yeah, I think to that point, it's hard and maybe I'm going to become a little bit philosophical here, but I think, you know, as a society, you know, I think Zoe mentioned this is like, you know, women are not taught to raise their hands as much or to say that I can do this or to sign up for the next growth opportunity. And that's just kind of how what I've seen, right, and has been statistically shown. But I think if you are able to find, like to Francis and Jesse's point, to find mentors and sponsors that will push you and provide those opportunities, I think those are super key to help you to actually make sure that you are not missing out on areas of growth for yourself. And I think the second piece is, again, maybe this is the philosophical part too, around doing that internal workaround, where do you see yourself in the year, in five years, 10 years? And what can you do to help you get there without fear, without any kind of other voice in your head that may not actually be your own? How do you kind of quiet those gremlins and really think about where you want to be, how you're going to get there? And now we have ChatGPT, Gemini, et cetera. Put in, I want to be here in five years. What's the potential plan to get there and see what it spits out and you can adjust from there? But I think those two points around mentorship and sponsorship and then doing that internal work to really think about where do you want to be and how do you quiet those gremlins that may not always be your own voice, but have embedded themselves in your head too.

Zoe Hominick

Yeah, and there might be, Kari, just a couple of points. I love everything you've said then, just to build on it, a couple of points. One is, I think it's our role as leaders to create those opportunities and to build the confidence. And it all starts with small steps. So actually, rather than perhaps that big stretch project, what are the small things that start to give people the confidence in your team that they can do things, they can take on extra responsibility? And then make sure you're reinforcing that behavior. And back to the point that Jesse made earlier in the discussion about celebrating the failures, right? It's as much about the action. The other thing, and I don't know where this quote has come from, but it's something that I heard many years ago and has stayed with me that says, if you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right. So I think there's a real thing about mindset that we can go into this with, actually, if you go in with a mindset that I can't do this, I'm going to fail, it's too much of a stretch. Do you know what the risk is? It will become self-fulfilling. So actually just telling ourselves those gremlins that Ahima talked about, actually trying to find that positive voice in our heads and listen to that more, I think can make a real difference, as uncomfortable as that might be.

Frances Verdugo-Lash

I think we've talked a lot about in the work context, opening yourself up to questions, being curious. You have to apply that to yourself. Ask the questions about how can I get there? Be willing to be vulnerable about your own career path. I mean, it's very hard. I think we have a much easier time applying it to a project, applying it to a campaign than we do to ourselves. And I really love that you called them gremlins, Naima, because I talk about that often. The little gremlin voice goes off and you get really quiet and you don't want to show that you don't know. And I think applying that same curiosity and that same vulnerability and humility that we do with any project to our own careers is incredibly important and it's going to be uncomfortable.

Kari Wiens

So on the topic of uncomfortability, there's another question that came in that I'm going to insert here. And this is around How have you dealt with bad leadership or a difficult boss? Love the pondering right now. Or we can twist it around. Or how would you deal with bad leadership or a difficult boss? How do you take those steps?

Jesse Wu

So for me, I What I learned is like acknowledge, right? Like there are differences in beliefs and values and the way of approaching work. And really just like sit with that feeling, right? Like sometimes I feel like we're trying to justify, oh, maybe we're not mature enough. Maybe, you know, it's me, right? Like I think it's important to accept, hey, I'm feeling frustrated. And this is something that I need to work through. Right? Just accept that feeling 1st, and then really look at. Okay, what are the differences right between between us like, are there ways for us to continue working in certain parameter? Right? Like, are there ways to really, you know. see things eye to eye like, not have to agree on everything right, but just really find ways to work with that person. And maybe it's just like you don't know each other well enough, right? Like you have narratives and stories about each other. But you just create that opportunity right to be vulnerable, to know each other as human beings would really help.

Zoe Hominick

Yeah. And I think it's interesting to pick up on those those words right of a bad boss or bad leadership. I don't believe anyone comes to work to do a bad job. So I think if we start with that positive frame, it is very much, as Jesse says, about then seeking to understand. So what is the frame of reference? What is the outcome? What's informing that? And really seeking to learn and then finding that common ground to kind of move forward.

Kari Wiens

Yeah, absolutely. Let's go ahead and shift back over to our outline for a second and talk a little bit about, as we're thinking about what matters most in 2026, not five years from now, but what matters now. In 2026 specifically, what mindset or capability do you believe matters most for marketing leaders who want to earn that trust and want to show that value consistently?

Naeemah Philippeaux

I think the first word that comes to mind for me is agility. And I think it's been spoken about on this call a lot. There's so much change happening with AI, technology, geopolitics, different orgs, et cetera, that I think, you know, being able to think on your feet and be agile is truly important. And I do think that agility also helps to build that trust. 'Cause I, and I've said this before, is like when leaders cling too tightly to, you know, the status quo, how things have always been, what they already know, that kind of signals a little bit of a lack of awareness and that could also erode the confidence within your teams, within your organization. So I think being able to acknowledge the change that's happening externally, internally, and then being able to communicate it and adjust is how leaders stay attuned to their environment, to their teams. and actually can then figure out what the next steps could be to actually combat or to go with the flow, depending on what that change is actually happening.

Zoe Hominick

Yeah, and I think you're absolutely right. That agility is so fundamental now, given the pace of change. The other one that I would build on that with is curiosity. So, you know, given that pace of change, rather than seeing that as a threat, actually seeing that as an opportunity, thinking about how you can learn, you know, we've never done learning. So how can you stay curious? How can you think about the possibilities, the opportunities that all this change can offer as a marketeer, as a leader, as an individual and for your business?

Frances Verdugo-Lash

I think that reframing you know, the, the change, the rapid growth as an opportunity is, is absolutely a mindset change that that positivity is really important. And that vulnerability to, I mean, admitting, I don't know, but we're going to figure it out together. As a leader, it's very helpful to hear that for, you know, from, from your own executives, from your team, we're going to figure it out together. I mean, ultimately, When everything's uncertain, that's the only option, right? You can't silo yourself off and pretend you know all the answers when really you're scrambling. I mean, you could, but the outcome is not going to be the one you'd like. So it's not about having rose-colored glasses on and ignoring when there are downsides to things. But I think that having that team mindset, that collaboration, that openness to ask questions, that is going to be very, very important as we move forward.

Jesse Wu

Yeah, just to build off on Yima's point of view, right, agility is extremely important. We need to move fast. However, I think the ability to slow down from time to time, to reflect, right, to really zoom out and lead with intention is also important because there's so much noise right now, from new tools to constant urgency. And then the focus itself has become a leadership skill, right? So being able to step back, decide what truly deserves attention and really help the team focus on the right work is how leaders earn trust and show value consistently in 2026.

Kari Wiens

All great advice. Before we open it up to Q&A, I do want to end on one final question here around Really, as we kind of look at how marketing leadership is evolving, what do you hope becomes most true because of how leaders like us choose to show up in moments of uncertainty?

Zoe Hominick

I'm happy to kick this off, Kari. So I think for me, I've been a marketeer and indeed a B2B, proudly a B2B marketeer my whole career. And I think for me, it's still around that marketing continues to be seen as an incredible place for talented individuals to build a career. I think it has such a diversity of offerings and indeed with the technology, the landscape changing, I think still that offering for growth, for creativity, for true commercial impact on the business and rewarding long-term success. You know, I really believe and indeed, I hope that, you know, that will be kind of true for, you know, people starting their career and how we as leaders can then play a real, a real key role in in shaping that for the next generation of marketers that are coming through.

Jesse Wu

Yeah, for me, I truly hope that marketing leaders feel empowered to show up as their authentic self and stay open even when things feel uncertain. It's okay to acknowledge fear, to admit mistakes, but it's also important to trust the process and have the courage to take thoughtful risks. I also hope that we normalize the idea that growth isn't linear. We learn by trying. failing fast, adjusting, and trying again. And as leaders, we're not only learning new skills like AI or new technologies, we're also building the mindset required to adapt to constant change. So the combination of skill building and mindset work is what help us lead with confidence, navigate uncertainty, and ultimately succeed together.

Naeemah Philippeaux

I think I would say I want and I hope marketing leadership is increasingly seen as a source of clarity because I do think that we are our goal as marketers is to be very close to our customers, to our clients. And so being able to understand who they are, what matters to them, and continuously sharing those insights across the, you know, our different teams and different orgs, I think that could help to, again, make us a little bit of a lighthouse, hopefully, to kind of help people to understand like what we're who we're doing this for and why it actually matters.

Frances Verdugo-Lash

I'll second that becoming a resource, right? We talk to customers, we talk to our sales teams, we talk to all the different functions to try and develop our strategies. And so I feel that we have a particular insight to give to the rest of the organization. And I would hope that we become seen as more and more of a resource.

Kari Wiens

Great. Well, thank you all. I am going to turn it over to Q&A. And we've already got a few outlined here. So we're going to just jump right on in. So one of the questions that we're going to answer first is, given the landscape of innovation, current state, age, motivation, skills of the workforce, what is it-- so if you were tasked with building a dream team in this industry, what would that look like? Or how would you prioritize in building out that team?

Zoe Hominick

I'm happy to have a stab, Kari. I feel like it's so far.

Kari Wiens

I know. I'm watching the pondering happening. Go ahead, Zoe.

Zoe Hominick

I know. I'm sure others will, you know, will build out on this. But I think my starting point when thinking about a team is, you know, as has been outlined, you know, in the core of this question, I think is firstly about diversity. And actually, I think as we see multiple generations, you know, within our teams, having that diversity is more important than ever. I think the other piece for me as a marketeer is always starting with the customer and therefore making sure that your team is reflective and representative of your customer to make sure that that insight can be built. And then I think one of the things that we really need to consider as we move forward is actually, you know, the role of agents within our teams. You know, as I think about my team, I don't just think about the individuals within my team. I think about the broader, you know, kind of interdependencies, you know, the virtual team, if you like, we have, as well as then the extended team that goes out to the agencies, the, you know, the other providers, the suppliers that we might work with. And I think it's really important to consider all of those ingredients when pulling together the Optimum team. And then to make sure you've got, as we talked about earlier, some of the agility built into that. So, you know, we need in those skills that we are, we're hiring, that we're, you know, continuing to build and develop, the agility, the ability to be fungible. you know, to strengthen and be able to embrace, you know, curiosity as we, you know, as we see the level of change that we do. So I think all of those factors, it's about the marketing skills, it's about some of those softer skills and making sure that there's enough diversity and that it's representative of your customers.

Naeemah Philippeaux

And I think just to build off, oh, go ahead, Frances.

Frances Verdugo-Lash

Oh, so sorry about that. Zoe mentioned soft skills. And I think as we get into, with more of the utilization of AI, there is a little bit of flattening of expertise, right? I mean, you can ask anything to Gemini, ChatGPT. And I think really looking more at the potential. I think we talked about that from women in leadership lens, as always kind of looking at the credentials versus potential. So when you're building that team, looking at the potential, I mean, I did not come from a traditional marketing background. I have a poly sci degree. And I'm grateful that someone took that chance on me and it ended up working out very well. And so I think looking at how people approach problems, how people communicate within a group environment, within a team, especially as things are changing, are becoming much more important than necessarily someone's credentials and their particular marketing skills. That being said, there's always a basis that you need, right? But I think that those soft skills are going to become more and more important.

Naeemah Philippeaux

And I think just to kind of echo what you were saying, Zoe, and then connected to what something Jesse said earlier on like skill sets and mindsets, you said, Jesse, I think that's what the team basically is, is you need people with certain skills and some of that is core marketing, sure, some of it is. with these new advancements, maybe something around there. But I do think that mindset is kind of what you, Frances and Zoe were talking about around like people who are hungry, people who want to learn, people who are willing to adapt and try new things and are thinking outside the box. I think having that diversity of thought as well will be super important as a team, especially if you're looking for kind of being able to adapt and grow and take in all of these different changes that are coming.

Kari Wiens

Well, that diversity of thought plays nicely into this next question that ties back to a couple of the conversations we were having earlier. So it says, you've talked a lot about testing culture. Are you measuring success or setting objectives with your teams in those terms? I'll just pause there.

Naeemah Philippeaux

Yeah, I think so. I mean, when we do like a piloting or testing, like we set a certain goal, some KPIs that we want to kind of hit, depending on what we're testing at that time. And then we just kind of, I mean, I used to do a lot of agile marketing back in my consulting days, and it was two week sprints, right? You're doing it in two weeks, you're seeing what works, seeing what didn't, and then you do a look back and you see, based off that, let's do another test and kind of iterate from there. So that's something that we'll use in a similar way within my teams. And we measure through those KPIs just to kind of see how it's progressing.

Jesse Wu

Yeah, we definitely define KPIs and measurement for our pilots as well. So our team supports a really large sales organization. So usually we start the pilot with one or two teams, right, who are really hungry for new ideas or some of the AEs who are really innovative and they're always like happy to test out new tools and programs, right, just really understand, like, hey, are they being successful, right, with the pilot? And you will be surprised even before the end of the pilot, like other AEs will raise their hands, like, hey, how about me? Like, I want to be in the program as well, right? So it's just really, you know, having the clear KPIs and, like, yeah, see if it's successful with a small group of people, and then we can scale it to the broader group.

Frances Verdugo-Lash

I do think setting those KPIs, those objectives at the start of any test is important. But I also think allowing the opportunity to question the premise, because sometimes you will see that those KPIs are being met, and you might still not be getting the actual outcome you want. So making sure that even if you're hitting those marks, you are still questioning what that means fundamentally.

Kari Wiens

Yeah, great point, Frances. Switching gears a little bit, this next question is, okay, has this approach to managing uncertainty impacted how you manage your annual or quarterly planning?

Naeemah Philippeaux

Yeah, I think touch on this a little bit, but we do make sure that, again, I do believe it's important to have a goal and some kind of plan and it will adjust, but some kind of vision for the team. But I think what we do now is we add in kind of some space for that variability and literally just like, you know, whether we call it testing, whether we call it, you know, unknown or whatever it may be called, but leaving space within that plan for things that may come up that, you know, are hard to plan for.

Zoe Hominick

Yeah, and I think there's a risk. I agree with that. I think, making sure that innovation is embedded, test to learn, we talked a lot about on this call. But I also think it's really important that we still think long-term. Like, yes, there is a lot of ambiguity, you know, there's a lot of change, but there's also got to be clarity and there's got to be a marketing strategy that is underpinning the direction so that everyone's pointing in the same direction. There's a vision for the organisation. The marketing strategy is aligned to the organisation's business strategy, the vision, the goals for the organisation. And I think the risk is with the amount of change that could just lead to almost becoming frozen, not taking any action because of the fear of actually, is this going to be the right thing? Is it going to change again? So I think having the annual plan, having that overarching strategy remains almost more fundamental than it ever has.

Jesse Wu

Yeah, I agree with everybody said. It's important to have that baseline fundamental strategy and framework in place, especially if you've been running those programs right for years and you have data to back it up. And then it's important to build that, you know, flexibility of, okay, like. up to 10%, 20% changes that let's revisit every single quarter and realign. It is important to carve out time for recalibration, either on the goals or accounts. In ABM, we look at our account list every single quarter to make sure we're accommodating those motions. But yeah, I think it's important to have that baseline and build in that flexibility for rapid changes.

Frances Verdugo-Lash

I think it can get really easy to just start thinking about how we can improve everything. And if something is working and it continues to work, I think that that becomes a foundation that you can then have as the steadiness while you test on areas that are in the unknown. those known knowns, keep them there, keep measuring them so that you have that foundation and you do have that room to experiment and potentially find new things that work very well, but you have to have that foundation.

Kari Wiens

And I know we're nearing the end of our time. So I'm going to wrap up with one final question. And this is for each of the panelists to answer. And it says, for those of us earlier in our leadership journey, what's one habit or mindset you wish you had built sooner?

Naeemah Philippeaux

I would say confidence. I think that you know more than you know, than you think you know, rather. And if you don't know, you can find it. And I think having the confidence to, again, going back to the mindset piece, to raise your hand, to ask questions, to be a sponge, I think, One thing I was very early is I was very much a sponge, and I would just say yes, and I would just try and see what happened. And I do think that along with the confidence piece, I think can really go very far.

Zoe Hominick

I would also say two things. I think early in the career, you know, don't think you've got to know all the answers, and don't think there's only one answer. So actually, as Nim said, try test learners. We've talked about a lot on this call. I think the other thing is, really think about building that kind of personal board around you. To that point, if you're not doing it on your own, who are those people that you can test your ideas on that maybe bring different strengths, have different experiences that you can really use to help and support your growth in your career? And it's always amazing. That might be family, it might be friends, it might be colleagues. People will know different elements and different strengths of you, but really utilizing that I think is valuable at any point in your career, but particularly kind of early into leadership?

Frances Verdugo-Lash

I think what Zoe called out that there's not only one right answer is really important. When you're earlier on in leadership, you kind of feel like you have to have a shield in front of you and perform as if you know everything. And what that can do is kind of erode trust with your team because you are trying to, know, prove yourself. You're there to serve your team ultimately as a leader. And integrating that more into your, you know, leadership skills earlier on will make things a lot easier. And that that confidence will come from that.

Jesse Wu

Yeah, exactly. I clean what Frances was saying, right? Like early in my career, I thought I have to have all the answers, but that's not true, right? You know, when you're so like determined about finding the answer, you're just becoming too attached to the outcome, and that might not be the best outcome, right? So just really inviting conversations and inviting like support, inviting collaboration, and you will end up like finding a way better path than what you have in your mind, right? If this is the only single outcome I have to achieve.

Kari Wiens

And I think I'm going to piggyback on all of you and say patience. I've always found that early in your leadership journey, you want to make things happen fast. You want to prove things fast. You want to make sure that your team is showing up and efficient and driving hard. But most of the time, you actually need to take a step back, have that patience, make sure you're listening to the cues and deciding the right course of action. Thank you all. We will wrap up here. If anybody in the audience has additional questions, please reach out to TMP and we can pass some of those along. I'm very excited to have had all of you on the panel today and a great discussion on trust. So with that, we'll go ahead and wrap up.